• The interview has gone viral online.
Activist Kasmuel McOure was hosted by Citizen TV's Olive Burrows in a conversation about the ongoing protests by Gen Z.
Kasmuel was joined in the studio by Mercy Tarus, the founder of the Kenya Ni Home initiative, and Warungu Mwangi, a lawyer and political analyst.
They shared their opinions on the call for dialogue made by a section of churches and Opposition leader Raila Odinga.
"These bodies are calling for structured national dialogue as who? It is the thing that the older generation has done, which is to hijack what the younger generation has done," Kasmuel dismissed. He added, "We cannot have peace when we are not equal. Every other body is allowed to call for national dialogue apart from the people who have actually lost their lives. The majority of the population has gone on the streets and said, 'Listen, the country as it is, is currently not working for us.' And everybody but the majority of the country is allowed to have an opinion. Whenever we are trying to exercise our democratic rights, everyone can have an opinion."
Olive interjected, "In what forum would you like to elucidate what this liberation would look like? You can't be on the streets just across the year."
Kasmuel disagreed, "We absolutely can." He said as Mercy Tarus and Warungu Mwangi were encouraged to speak on the same matter, agreeing with Kasmuel.
"But Kasmuel, why not come to the negotiating table or the dialogue table right? And say, 'First of all, we want accountability for the lives that were lost.' That is one of the demands I've heard Mercy put across. What is so difficult or isn't that the ideal situation?" Olive challenged Kasmuel.
The activist took issue with her comments. "We cannot show up to dialogue tables when the majority of us are showing up on autopsy tables. It is unfair for you to expect the Kenyan youth to take this lying down because everybody but the people who are losing blood—and I will keep referring to these people because the youth that have died—it was not just an accident. They are victims of police brutality. We have not seen any form of goodwill from this Government in the sense that they've asked us for evidence. We have shown photos, and videographic evidence because they told us they do not have CCTV footage of the people who went into Parliament. We have shown different angles."
"We cannot go to a dialogue table that has been organized by our oppressor. We will not show up to a place where..." He was interrupted by Olive, who asked, "So who do you want to organize it?"
"Again, we do not want dialogue. Our demands have been very simple. They do not need conversation, they only need action," he insisted, detailing concerns like ID issuance and reconstituting the IEBC.
Olive reminded him, "Ok, fair point, but did you listen to the President's speech on Wednesday? He outlined several measures in addition to those he had addressed prior. So he said, 'I have done my bit, give me time.'"
Kasmuel interjected, "This is the same Government that is talking about witness protection as if we do not know what it has done in the past? The thing we are saying is those demands, we have never met him to take them to him. He has found them somehow, and the things we have been consistently saying on our media have found their way into his speeches, so why do we need dialogue?"
Olive shot down his comments, "Alright, fine, so he says he has heard you. Mercy, what more do you want from the President?" Olive again asked the other activists.
"He heard us, he fired the CSs," Mercy pointed out.
"Are you looking for an overnight solution? I mean, these things take time," Olive said.
Warungu noted that they lack political goodwill.
"President William Ruto on Sunday said it is you now who are the dictators. You are holding the nation hostage, Kasmuel, your response?" Olive asked.
He dug in, "There is no way he can call us dictators because he does not have the range to lecture us on dictatorship. Not once have we, in our peaceful exercising and dispensation of our civic duties, robbed, harmed, or killed anyone. Every life lost has been on the Government because the police are an arm of the government."
He argued as he again outlined the demands made by the youth. "There is nothing dictatorial about me demanding my basic human rights."
Mercy called on Kenyans not to see their protests as anti-Government, and Olive reacted to this, "People are chanting on the streets saying 'Ruto must go.' We have seen jerseys that are written on the back, is that not an anti-Government protest?" the TV presenter asked.
Kasmuel rejected this idea, "This is not directed at a particular individual. Don't you dare think that we want to topple over a President. We are toppling over an entire Presidency. We are saying, if you cannot do or dispense whatever it is that you said you would do for the people, we want all of you gone."
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